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3 Cocktails In
Addicting conversations between friends who have been there, done that and still want more.
We are 3 friends who got this crazy idea to start a podcast based on our friendships, family lives, professional lives and experiences! This idea kept coming up in our conversations, especially after a cocktail or two or maybe three, and we finally decided to ACT on it!
We don't claim to be experts on too many things, but friendship? Well, we've got that down. We're making our way through major life changes, searching for work that excites us, busting myths associated with 'old' people, and keeping a sense of humor about it all.
Self employed, boss - CHECK
Mom, wife, single - CHECK
Rural, suburban, urban life - CHECK
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Amy, Kitty & Stacey
P.S. Isn't our intro music great?! Yah, we think so too. Thank you, Ivy States for "I Got That Wow".
3 Cocktails In
Why Anger Isn't the Problem, But Your Response Is
Anger can often feel like an insurmountable force, but the truth is, understanding this powerful emotion can lead to healthier relationships and personal well-being. In this engaging episode, we sit down with guest Deanna, a certified counselor with extensive experience navigating complex emotional landscapes. Together, we dive deep into the nature of anger, exploring how perceptions shape our responses and why understanding our reactions is critical in today's emotionally charged world.
Deanna shares compelling insights from her years in practice, highlighting the rise of anger issues, particularly among younger generations as they cope with the stresses introduced during the COVID-19 pandemic. Listeners will gain valuable tools for managing their anger and recognizing the underlying emotions that often spur reactions, prompting helpful conversations and improved dynamics in relationships.
We also discuss the potential for anger to serve a constructive purpose — from advocating for justice to driving personal change. Whether you're seeking to understand your emotional responses better or looking to support someone struggling with anger, this discussion promises to inspire and enlighten. Join us for an enriching conversation that redefines how we view anger, equipping you with the knowledge to navigate emotional turbulence with confidence.
Don't forget to subscribe, share this valuable episode with others, and leave a review to let us know what you think!
Amy, Kitty & Stacey
P.S. Isn't our intro music great?! Yah, we think so too. Thank you, Ivy States for "I Got That Wow".
All right, ooh, look I got that. Wow, who wants some heads up right now? We got that. Turn it up loud. I know you're wondering how.
Speaker 2:I got that. Wow, here I go. Here I go, coming. I can't ever stop. I'm a tour de force running. Get me to the top, I don't need a.
Speaker 3:Well, good evening friends, Hello Get me to the top.
Speaker 4:I don't need a Good for you. Good for you and we've got a deal in the works. Oh, it will all happen then, so hopefully I'll hear something tonight or tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3:Good, good, good, good. Well, welcome everybody to another episode of Three Cocktails In Stacey. Amy and myself, we are back together again. I've been on vacation for the last week. This is the first time that I've talked to each of you since my little Full side Boondoggle. Yes, yeah, I almost said hola Hola.
Speaker 5:Yes hola.
Speaker 4:Hola.
Speaker 3:Which is kind of the extent of my Spanish.
Speaker 4:But no, por favor, did you throw in the, please I?
Speaker 3:you know, that's that word, just that's what that word's too long, it's just easier to say please oh, okay, yeah, but did you mostly relax? Yes, all about relaxation we did.
Speaker 3:It was so relaxing. We um, we ate way too much. Uh, we were ready to come home and you know that's the sign of a good vacation when you're you're like all right, that that's good, that we got some sleep, we got some sun, um, really good food, all of those wonderful things and ready to get back to reality. And it really helped that it was 40 degrees when we landed here, because it was.
Speaker 3:So everybody that we met and they'd say, where are you from Minnesota? They're like, oh, it's cold there, right? We would say and I had a screenshot of it it was 17 below zero on Tuesday when we left. Screenshot of it, it was 17 below zero on Tuesday when we left, yeah, and it was 85 when we landed in Kutukana. So, yeah, yeah, it was great that it warmed up yes, it was a good a good week to leave yeah, yes, it was.
Speaker 3:So came back totally feeling relaxed and no stress and super excited about the conversation that we're going to have tonight. We have really enjoyed bringing guests on to the podcast Collectively. We have such an amazing group of friends and friends who do really cool shit, right? Friends who have very cool careers, very cool areas of expertise, talents, all of those things, and we're going to dig into a topic that we have not even gone anywhere near on this podcast, right? Yes, so we're going to bring in our special guest. I would love to introduce my friend, deanna doctor.
Speaker 6:Welcome, deanna thank you, hi. Ladies, nice to be with you tonight very good to have you here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so excited. Deanna, you are a let me get this right you are a licensed, no, a certified. You're a certified therapist, certified faith-based counselor Yep, counselor and you work with individuals and you work with families, correct, right? Yeah, yeah, so I've gotten to know Deanna over the last couple of years, um just through online, which is great, and I just feel like we we became fast friends um very, very quickly, and so it's been fun to learn about what you do professionally and how you help people. And, boy, I would have to imagine that what you do is well. You're probably very busy on a weekly basis, aren't you? I am, and your practice has kind of just continued to grow in need. Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 6:So I've been counseling for 26 years and, interestingly enough, in that time frame have really honed in on individuals and families. But COVID changed the dynamic. I feel like COVID gets blamed for everything, but when you've done something for 26 years and then you're shut down and you're closed down, our community, our health department, considers mental health a necessity, and so most of the practices in the area stayed open, as our center did. We stayed open and we have been just inundated ever since. We rarely before that waiting list. We now have a waiting list that runs months out.
Speaker 6:We're seeing younger and younger people. We're seeing younger and younger people who are dealing with more significant stresses and hardships, and so I am busy. But I also have job security and that's hard to complain about. People are always going to need help. People are always going to need somebody to listen to them. Life is hard if you don't have a community that listens. So I'm really thankful. I feel very blessed to do what I do and to be able to come alongside people and shoulder some of their heavy for them. Many of them don't have anybody else doing that. I feel really blessed to be able to do that.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of people are grateful that the topic of mental health is talked about now, and it's not. It's you know, honestly, doesn't everyone? Shouldn't everyone in the world have some sort of therapy or have some sort of, you know, counselor or session, or something I think we all probably have at different?
Speaker 4:times right, mm-hmm. Stacey and Amy. Yep, yeah, and it's nice that it's more. It was great to have a neutral party, so to speak, to talk to about things, that it wasn't somebody who knew everybody in my life and didn't come in with any preconceived notions of the people in my life, and you know so it really. It's that that professional I think, is huge is huge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, agree. So when we, um, when Deanna graciously agreed to be on the podcast, uh, we started talking about you know, so what? There are obviously so many different things that we can talk about and you counsel on many different things, but we kind of zeroed in on the topic of anger, um, and that's something that we really have not talked about here at all and honestly, I don't think that I ever thought about that as a topic that is discussed with a counselor or or with a a therapist, but of course it is, um, so I'm super excited to talk about this topic. You know, um, we all feel the emotion and it can come over us in at different times and in different ways and, um, I think we can, we can describe the feeling of it, that you know the temperature raising, or you know that heartbeat, heartbeat, all of these different physical reactions to anger. But what is anger exactly? How would you describe that?
Speaker 6:Is that a question for me? Yes, yes, yes, and I think we describe it that way as a whole person reaction to their perception of a situation, because you and I could be in the same situation, we're experiencing it at the same time, your perception could be radically different, and it doesn't evoke any anger in you, and meanwhile I'm ready, like that, to fly off the handle in anger. And so we try to define it really simply as just a whole person reaction to our perception of the events or the circumstances in front of us.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:So when this topic comes up for you with your clients, is it? I mean, I would assume that there may be situations where a client will come to you and they'll say anger is overtaking me, and you hear people say this. I mean, I've heard the term oh, that person has anger issues and I hate that. I mean that's kind of an unfair thing to say about someone. You don't know what's going on in their life. But how does it come up in your sessions and what sort of approach do you take on this topic?
Speaker 6:We certainly hear that People come in and lots of times they're sent to us by bosses because their anger has created a problem in the workplace.
Speaker 6:Maybe they've thrown something, maybe they've got a fast, sharp mouth that's being derogatory or unkind to fellow employees.
Speaker 6:Maybe they're being insubordinate on a regular basis to a boss, and so the assumption is man, they've got an anger issue, they need help, they need to go to counseling, and so they'll come in and on their intake paperwork they're really honest, they'll say I'm coming because I've been told I have an anger problem or I have an anger issue.
Speaker 6:It's pretty easy to see that even in the session it presents fairly quickly and fairly easily when you start to ask questions and you start to poke and prod around people's lives. But the interesting thing is, I think all of us, if we're going to, if we're going to go strictly by the definition I gave we all have anger issues from time to time. There's just stuff that's always going on around us and my perception of it is that I'm being harmed some way and so of course I'm going to get angry. So I agree with you, kitty, the phraseology is problematic just from the vantage point of okay, if that's the term we're going to use, even your counselor has an anger issue. So we prefer to help people see when they get angry and why they get angry, so we can give them the tools for why and when they get angry. Understanding it's not going to be a constant thing, yeah.
Speaker 4:I, I never really thought of anger as as the issue. I thought of it as, um, how being upset manifests itself. You know that great distinction, because what you just said, you know, something's bothering them and their response, it's their response, that's angry. So to me, the anger isn't the thing. Well, I mean, that's what causes problems. Their response causes problems. But you don't just people, don't just wake up angry for no reason. There's something there.
Speaker 6:Yes, yeah, that's a great distinction, and part of the dilemma is the only reason that it would cause a problem is because they've externally flown off the handle in some way. I'm using that broad sweeping term.
Speaker 6:They might have just yelled, but they also might have thrown something or broken something and typically we don't pay attention. Even in our own lives we don't pay attention to the things that are bothering us until they evidence externally and they create an external problem. So yeah, I love the distinction that anger isn't my. My external response in my anger isn't actually my biggest problem. What's causing me to react that way is my biggest problem, and we delve into that in counseling. We try to help people. See, listen, you're getting angry. You're thinking you're getting angry because of mistreatment in your past. You think you're getting angry because you're dealing with difficult situations right now in your present. You think you're getting angry because you have unmet desires and unmet expectations. You think you're getting angry because you have unmet desires and unmet expectations, but those are simply influencing your emotional reaction. They're not causing it. That emotional response is caused deep within all of us from the belief that I'm entitled to something and in this moment I'm not getting it.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm. And so in that way, you're likely to blame what you're. You know, it's this person that I'm interacting with right now. It's their fault, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6:For sure. Well, and don't we hear that Shoot, maybe we've even said it ourselves. You know how I get when you and we use that phrase as justification so somebody has done something, and we're like, oh my goodness, you know how I get when you say that, well, actually I have complete control over what I say. So if Stacy or Amy or Kitty pops off with something, I don't actually get to blame you that I opened my mouth in anger and decimated you verbally just because you did X, y or Z. I have control over Deanna's responses.
Speaker 6:But man, anger is one of those emotions that we go from zero calm, just super chill in life to I can throw something in the snap of a finger, my emotion can be triggered that quickly. I can throw something in the snap of a finger, my emotion can be triggered that quickly. So I think it feels for people like they're not responsible for how they navigate their anger because it's such a quick reaction from nothing's wrong to I just vented or exploded or hurt something or somebody, and that makes it hard for people who really do struggle with that emotion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So then what do you? You know how do you start by, you know, managing that anger emotion. You know what would be your start to fixing it, you know.
Speaker 6:Yeah, so typically what I do is I spend time asking them for the themes do is I spend time asking them for the themes if they've noticed themes or patterns to when they do get angry Either internally they just feel angry or externally now other people can see it. I spend a couple of sessions just helping them look over the trajectory of their life and evaluate if they can see any patterns or themes. Most people can, with a little bit of help and some questions directed at them. As they identify those themes. Then we start to talk about and what were you desiring around those themes? What did you actually believe that you deserved or you were entitled to? It's the flavor of entitlement that really promotes in me the reaction of anger. I actually do believe I have a right and that right is being violated. I think you're the reason it's being violated. So my anger is going to be directed at you.
Speaker 6:But after they can identify some patterns and themes, then we start to look at the desires that drove them in those patterns and themes. What did they believe they deserved? And that can be again. That can be so hard for us, because it's right and appropriate for people to treat us with respect. That's appropriate. Civilizations thrive because we're mature and we're mutually respectful and we appreciate one another, one another. So it's hard to guide somebody who's already believing those good, right things about themselves as a human, that they don't actually have the power to demand a certain response from another human and that if they don't get it, it's not appropriate for them to react in anger. That can be a very hard sell because they're convinced they should be treated a certain way. But at the end of the day, I have no control over how other people are going to attempt to treat me. I only have control over how long I stay underneath the treatment. Does that make sense? Am I explaining that well?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean again, it's choice If you think you deserve to be treated some way and you're not being treated that way. It's your choice whether you stay and engage or whether you remove yourself. A lot of us go right to the anger Right Because sometimes you're not in a position to leave. When you talk about workplace Correct, I mean there are times in all of our lives when anger is actually you can see it. You can see that you you haven't made it up, you're not being ultra sensitive. Somebody is treating you poorly. Right.
Speaker 4:But it's still your choice on how you respond. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6:And very rarely do people react to anger in a calmer, helpful way, right Like anger feeds. I've noticed this in myself. Anger feeds all of the basest parts of how Deanna's ready to fight and she's ready to annihilate you. I mean, that's just that wells up in all of us. So if I can make the choice in that moment, even when I'm not being treated well, to respond out of a calmer mindset which, again, we help our clients learn how to do there's the potential that that behavior, although the behavior might not change, there's the potential that there aren't other complicating factors in play now, because I haven't fed any kind of issue myself. Of course that sounds really great in theory, until somebody is in front of you and they're disrespecting you or they're using their mouth to annihilate you or they're getting physically aggressive towards you, and then it's kind of like all bets are off and now the better person just needs to win.
Speaker 6:I mean, that's what rises in us. Yeah, that's not a really helpful way to solve conflict.
Speaker 3:The fight or flight comes into play there. For sure, for sure, yeah, can anger actually have?
Speaker 6:can anger actually serve a positive purpose? Oh, I believe so. When you, when you look around at the injustice, when you look around at the innocence in our cultures and in other cultures being taken advantage of and hurt, when you look around at harmful or illegal activities and behaviors, activities and behaviors, anger is an energy that can literally be leveraged to fight for the cause of justice, to fight for the cause of wrongs being made right. I think there's a really beautiful place for the energy of anger to be leveraged so that people are helped, harm is stopped, injustice is corrected and righted. Yeah, I think we have to work at that. I think we have to practice utilizing the energy of our anger in a really positive, constructive way. But goodness, so many of the good, right things that have been done throughout history have been done because somebody was just ticked off at how wrong something was and it created this. Huh, I can do something about this.
Speaker 6:That's a beautiful energy.
Speaker 4:It reminds me of the phrase well-behaved women seldom make history. It takes that fire, as you've talked about it, that energy of anger being fueled, and also just back to the basic idea of anger and everyday situations. To do something positive with it does require the ability to kind of step out of yourself and recognize what's going on and have the wherewithal to say you know, I got to think this through a little bit that it can't just be that instant gut reaction. Right.
Speaker 6:Well, here's the interesting thing.
Speaker 4:Oh sorry, Go ahead I was just going to say that when you think about raising kids, you know that's what we're trying to do. Use your words. What? How are you feeling? All of this? Our generation? I don't think my mother ever asked me how I was feeling about something. I was told to knock it off or go to my room. You know those were my alternatives, so I don't think a lot of us have of our age. I'm just going to make a sweeping generalization, as we like to do. We didn't practice that, we didn't practice the maybe I shouldn't say this Right, and we're hoping that the younger generations have had a little bit more of that. But to be able to step back and realize that you know, right idea, wrong response, right.
Speaker 6:And again, in all of our emotions, anger has a tendency to have this negative connotation, but in all of our emotions, pausing before I react or respond would be just a good life principle, but I do have to practice that.
Speaker 6:I have to practice going. Whoa, Deanna, take a breath. What would be the best way to navigate this right now? Probably what you're thinking of saying wouldn't be the best initially. And so, yeah, I think the pause is really, really, really beneficial as a tool and we encourage people, particularly people who do struggle with moving from zero to 60 like that in their anger. We encourage them hey, just practice a pause in your own head, count and take some time to just count up to five or 10 and then open your mouth to respond. You might still be really angry, but that initial five to 10 seconds of what was going to fly out of your mouth probably isn't going to after you've slowed your roll a bit, before you open your mouth. And again, I'm trying to minimize, as I help my clients, I'm trying to minimize as I help my clients, I'm trying to minimize them creating even more destruction, so to speak, in the relationships in their life because of emotion that they just didn't utilize well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because it can be tremendously damaging to relationships.
Speaker 6:Oh my goodness, tremendously damaging to relationships. Oh my goodness, the lack of trust. That's the first and foremost breakdown for people who are consistently, regularly angry in relationships. The other side of that relationship gets to a point where they don't trust you. You're no longer safe, there's no longer security in front of you, and so they start to pull back, they withhold information, they emotionally close down. Well, there's not going to be real intimate friendship or relationship with that. There's a huge lack of respect.
Speaker 6:The number of times I've been out and about in public and I've watched somebody just pop off in their anger, my first thought going oh buddy, we could help you with that. Yeah, really sad. Right now You're functioning the way we do as kids. Kids have to learn how to regulate. They don't know how to regulate. That's part of our job as parents is we're training them how to regulate their emotions.
Speaker 6:It always saddens me when I see somebody as a grown adult who's functioning like they're still a child in their emotional responses to life, and so I think if you're regularly interacting with somebody like that, it leads to a lack of respect for you. You don't actually respect that person at the same level that you would if they had control of their emotions. Plus, I think it becomes a safety issue for a lot of people. Anger is an easy emotion to abuse, and I think for children in particular. If parents are regularly angry, they're regularly yelling, they're regularly yanking their kids around yeah, now it becomes a lack of safety. There's nothing beneficial that comes from that. It really just destroys the relationships between people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's. It is, it's another, it's a topic with. So, just like abuse, you know there's conversation around stopping the cycle. Anger is a topic as well, that you would seek to stop the cycle because, if you can, for sure families, uh, when they're raising young kids, kids to take that out of the family dynamic. Not that you're never going to create a situation where people aren't going to get angry about something, but it all comes down to how you deal with it, right? Yeah?
Speaker 6:I think particularly for children deal with it. Yeah, I think particularly for children. If we can remember and understand, as parents, that the amygdala is the part of the brain that processes all of our emotion. Well, the minute I experience emotion, my amygdala starts to just fire off adrenaline and noradrenaline. Well, if I'm a kid, I already kind of struggle with restraint, but now I've got all that adrenaline pulsing through me, I'm going to do and say all sorts of things, and so I think it's helpful for parents to realize wait a minute.
Speaker 6:You can teach your child in those initial stages. You can teach them to pause. You can teach them to choose between option A or option B. Give them their options, Show them what their options are. Here's the anger option. This is what it'll look like. Here's the restrained or calm option. Which one do you want to use? Of course the kid's always going to want to choose the anger option because he doesn't have to work at that. That just flies out of him. But if we can teach them what comes from that, they might be more prone to early on learn more restraint in their anger, and that's a win as they age.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it takes discipline. So taking that pause, that's a really good practice and everybody can benefit from that. And I also think too, as we get older, as we mature, some of that it's just a little bit easier for us to do. For sure, I would agree with that. What are some other techniques that you employ on this topic?
Speaker 6:Well, I'm going to go back. I believe it was you, amy, who was making the statement that you know. We encourage people to use their words. We encourage kids to use their words. We encourage people to use their words. We encourage kids to use their words. So, after we teach clients to pause, we encourage them to think through hey, what did you believe you were entitled to, what did you feel like you deserved in that moment? Because now is your chance to calmly verbalize that Again. I should not be demanding from you anything, because I don't have that kind of control, but lots of times people want to give me what I desire in the relationship. They just need to know what it is. And so if I've paused and I've slowed my role, so to speak, a little bit, now I can choose my words to just say hey, amy, in this moment I didn't feel heard. I felt like you were just pushing aside my suggestion for the rest of the day of work, and it gives Amy an opportunity to go. Oh man, that wasn't my intention, deanna. I thought I was listening, but okay, no, I want to do this part of what you suggested. I just don't think this part's going to work Now.
Speaker 6:I can still be angry, because I just think everybody should listen to me and my ideas are the best. But that's a completely different issue than anger. So we're only dealing with anger today and reality, that's right. So I think the first practical thing is to pause. I think the second practical thing I could do, if I'm the one that's angry, is use my verbiage and just communicate what I was looking for in that moment, for in that moment Again, it might have been a selfish thing that I was looking for, but it's helpful for the other person that's a party to my emotional response to know what I was looking for. They might be willing to give it to me, because it might not be a really horrific ask on my part, so to speak. But then I think we do have to teach people. Hey, there's a way to communicate with your words and your attitude and your tone of voice. That's just completely inappropriate. So I'm going to take just a slight tangent on this. In our counseling offices, we teach our clients all the time.
Speaker 6:Part of conflict resolution is learning to fight respectfully. I'm a fan of couples fighting. I'm not a fan of them tearing each other down when they do it, and so we teach them listen. You have to use words that affirm the person. You're not allowed to use words that don't. You have to use a tone of voice that shows respect. You're not allowed to use tones of voice that don't. And so, in my anger.
Speaker 6:If I'm already trying to pattern good communication, I think a third practical thing to do is for people to realize I have to. I'm not allowed to use certain words when I'm angry. Those are just off limits. I might normally want to use them. I'm actually not allowed. It's disrespectful to Stacy or Kitty or Amy when I use those words, and so I'm not allowed to do that, it doesn't matter how angry I am. Now, again, that takes discipline. But doesn't all relationship take discipline? Aren't the best relationships in our lives, the ones that we're investing time and effort into? Well, that's discipline, and so I think it's a skill worthwhile for us to learn and for us to teach other people and for us to practice so that we just become people who, even in our anger, well at least we're still respectful and kind. We're not decimating each other, right? I don't thinkimating each other Right. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Speaker 3:I think we're smart enough to learn that we should be. We should be.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I'm just curious. I work by myself, you know pretty much. I mean, I'm in a sales position. I'm just really curious about this idea of an employer sending an employee to counseling for anger. Okay, Totally get this idea that you've got to learn how to express yourself in a non-threatening, non-disparaging way. Sure, I got to believe that there are situations where people in your office or a person that you continue to have issues with. There's a very good chance that person is in the wrong Mm-hmm. So how do you counsel people? What do you do? How do you counsel them? What are the phrases? What do you say? What is the path? When the person you continue to have issues with you're saying what you're saying, you're no longer angry. Of course, you're not throwing anything to them, but the other person just doesn't care, doesn't listen, continues to treat you poorly. What's your suggestion to the formerly angry, reformed person who still has to deal with someone who is not playing by the same rules?
Speaker 6:Yeah. So we've had plenty of clients like that over 26 years. They get told they're wrong. I don't have a problem telling you you're wrong If you're sitting across in a room from me, if you're paying for my time, if you're coming because you want help and I believe the best help you need is for you to be told that you're the one that's out of line and you need to knock it off. I'm going to tell you that, right.
Speaker 5:So it doesn't come from a place of anger, no, you're just telling it like it is Calmly. Yes, yes, saying your opinion.
Speaker 6:And I'm trying, so I might be misunderstanding your question, Amy, and if I am just, you know, re-ask.
Speaker 6:Well, this is interesting, so keep going, I want to hear this so I have terminated people before because in my office I'm patterning what I'm teaching you. This is literally what I believe I'm living this out and so if I'm being calm, I'm being respectful and you're just constantly barking at me, swearing at me, yelling at me, I've got a pretty long fuse. As a counselor I can handle a whole lot emotionally, but if I see that pattern through two, three sessions, we're done, because if I care more about you living in healthy ways for the sake of your relationships than you do, I can't help you. So I have a really frank conversation and I just tell them listen, everybody else actually isn't the problem, you are the problem. And you're the problem because it seems to me like you believe you're actually right and everybody else is wrong.
Speaker 6:That's arrogance and it's a lack of humility. And as long as you stay there, not only can I not help you, but you are doomed to continue to sever every relationship in your life, because healthy people will not stay in relationships like that. It's not because we believe that person is toxic. It's not because I believe that I'm not allowed to be mistreated. I understand I'm going to be mistreated. I also understand I have the freedom to go. I don't actually have to volunteer for it. That's, that's not smart, that's not wise and and I want you to be encouraged to your absolute best potential. And I know you can be respectful, I know you can be calm. So if you're going to refuse to do that, trust me, deanna's not the counselor for you. We're done. And I literally get up, I open my door and I tell them when they're ready to be teachable to the multiple voices in their life, they're more than welcome to come back and see me.
Speaker 3:Wow, have you ever felt unsafe? Oh?
Speaker 6:yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've got.
Speaker 6:I've got some really fun stories in that department. Yeah, I've got some really fun stories in that department. Yeah, for sure, for sure I have. Yeah. But I'm pretty connected after 26 years of counseling, so I know lots of people who serve and protect. I know how to dial 911.
Speaker 6:I know some other things that I'm not going to say publicly on a podcast that I just I know how to handle myself and so I've never, ever been pushed into a position where I have felt like, oh, my goodness, I've got to have cops intervene, I need to make an emergency phone call.
Speaker 6:But there have been several situations over the years where I'm like, wow, this person's very volatile and when that happens we just put out an alert to all the staff and we make provisions for if they're ever back on the property, we preemptively strike, so to speak. But those have not been nearly as frequent, even with angry people, and I think most of the time, people who are completely out of control see the damage it's creating in their lives. They might not be teachable to it, but they see the damage, and so when they're met with just this presence of, I'm not moved by that. That doesn't intimidate me, you're actually the one with the problem. They have a tendency to back down and go look for somebody else to harass Not always, but often they do. I think it's different, amy, as you said, in a work environment. I think you don't have the freedom in a work environment that you might in other environments.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 6:But hopefully the leadership in a work environment would have a zero tolerance policy. That would be ideal for leaders to take seriously respectful, safe behavior in a work environment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so obviously there are. It is. They can make the recommendation that the person seeks counseling and that doesn't break. You know that's. That's okay with human resources. That was the first thing that came to my mind when you said that sometimes clients are referred from an employer, right oh?
Speaker 6:Again, they can't be forced Right. But if a boss is like, hey, listen, we've written you up three times. Yeah, now we're in a position where we might have to be more aggressive with you, based on you know the operating policy in your handbook, here's what we're recommending. We'd like to encourage you to go to counseling.
Speaker 6:Lots of times the corporations in this area have a fund and they pay for it. Okay, they cover those costs. They consider them mental health costs. They consider them not workman's comp, but it comes out of a fund similar to that that they just have sitting there as a way of serving their employees well. And again, you can't make them come, but you can strongly encourage it, particularly if this person has a pattern that they've already been written up for in their place of work. And lots of times people are more than willing to come. We like our jobs, we want our jobs, we value our jobs, and if you've got a boss who cares enough about you to offer mental health care to you, you've got to be pretty foolish to not take advantage of that.
Speaker 5:Right when, and this might be a hard question to answer. But what? How would you rank the? You know anger as opposed to other issues that you counsel? As far as you know the, the bigger issues to the I don't know how I want to say it. You know what do you counsel the most on. You know, oh, okay, you know what I mean, like what's the? Biggest issue down to Sure, or what does everyone see the most?
Speaker 6:I would say myself personally, there are nine of us in the center that counsel. I would say myself personally, there are nine of us in the center that council. I would say I see a majority of adultery. So I'm going to widen that term to mean a wide range of sexual misconduct on the part of one of the spouses. I counsel a large amount of that. I counsel a large amount of depression and anxiety and I counsel a large I don't.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I'm not sure why this is happening now I, over the last three years, have seen a dramatic increase in the amount of parents of adult children who are coming in because their adult children are severing relationships with them For a variety of reasons. Yeah, usually differences of opinion. You know, the mom and dad are entrenched in a view, politically or morally or in their faith, and the adult child who's in their twenties, thirties or forties doesn't hold that view, hasn't held that view, and it just creates so much conflict that the adult child's like listen, I'm done, I'm not having a relationship with you, and that's really devastating to the parents.
Speaker 4:So I, I'm sorry Go ahead, no go ahead. Is the root of that? A lack of respect for the other person's opinion Is the root of that?
Speaker 6:a lack of respect for the other person's opinion? Oh for sure, yeah. And do we live in America right now? Do we see that anywhere else? Is that trending anywhere else?
Speaker 6:Goodness, as a culture, we just don't respect other people's different viewpoints. And I'm not talking about agreement. I understand that between the four of us we're going to have a wide range of different viewpoints and I'm not expecting the three of you to agree with me on hardly any of them. Like we're adults, we're not going to agree, right? I'm not talking about agreement. I just mean the bare minimum human respect. Yeah, I totally agree with that, amy. I mean the bare minimum human respect. Yeah, I totally agree with that, amy.
Speaker 6:We've lost the mature, kind, respectful ability to disagree with somebody and still value them, and that is a respect issue. Now, I think it's possible. It works both ways in those family dynamics. Like I'm not blaming only the adult kids and I'm not blaming only the parents. I think it's shared, but, yeah, for sure, I think there's there's a lack of respecting that you have a different viewpoint, but, goodness, I still just adore you. I think you're wonderful and I want you in my circle. Yeah, we've lost that or we're losing it. Maybe I should say that yeah, and that concerns me for families. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:How, how do you not totally stress over, you know, the, the people you're counseling? You know, hoping that they, you know the, the people you're counseling, you know hoping that they, you know, can improve whatever they're trying to do? How, how do you personally, um, you know, try to I don't know if you distance yourself from it or you just know that that's your job is, you know, not to worry about all of your, you, all the people you're counseling, or?
Speaker 3:how do you not take it on? Yeah, how do you leave work at work?
Speaker 4:That's such a great question.
Speaker 6:That's such a great question. I have definitely grown in that. To answer that question, stacey, I would say the first several years of counseling were definitely rough and my husband can attest to that. We've been married for 31 years and so he has seen me at the very beginning of my career and now kind of seasoned in my career and he has said there's been a dramatic shift in how I navigate what I do for a living.
Speaker 6:I think part of it is my build. I think I've been built to handle hard and to handle a lot of hard. Well, I'm not saying that at all with arrogance. We all have different strengths and weaknesses and I have plenty of weaknesses. This podcast does not want to go that long to discuss those.
Speaker 6:But one of my strengths is that I really do handle a lot of hard and heavy emotionally very well. I don't experience anxiety or worry from my clients. I don't panic when I get emergency phone calls because of suicide attempts or domestic violence. I have a tendency to be really cool and calm and that has served me well over 26 years. But I think the other thing that serves me well is I'm really intentional about my own personal mental and emotional well-being my own personal mental and emotional well-being. I live very intentionally during the week in how I build relationship with people. Steve and I have a very strong marriage that we work really hard to maintain its strength, because that helps me then all week long as I carry other people's heavy and hard. I've got a good group of friends who are just their life giving and we do these types of things together. No, not podcasts.
Speaker 6:But, we're just doing life together and we're supporting one another and we're caring for one another. I do a lot of reading and a lot of outdoor activity and a lot of outdoor activity, and so, yeah, I think I'm probably pretty intentional about my own emotional well-being and mental health, and I think part of the reason I am is because I regularly struggle and wrestle with depression myself. I have a tendency to roll pretty low emotionally, and so, in order to maintain a really good, healthy view of life and movement through life even in my seasons of depression, that ongoing intentionality every week has helped tremendously. So, yeah, I think most of it's just the build.
Speaker 3:I can handle a lot of hard and ugly wow, well, um, I, deanna, I just am so impressed by you. You are just so professional and this conversation, your, your clients are lucky to have you.
Speaker 6:Thank you. That's really kind of you to say.
Speaker 3:Thank you you do. It's so needed. And, yeah, I love that we can talk about mental health and our own. I mean, I've been on an antidepressant for I don't know how many years many and you know people can say that and it's not like what. Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 6:It's a real gift the openness that we have today to talk about that.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Wow, I feel like we could talk. We could talk forever. I know right and have me over.
Speaker 6:Let's do coffee. Just have me over, ladies. I'd like to hear all your stories. I love to listen. It'd be great.
Speaker 3:And you know there are always questions that I'm like okay, tell me a little bit about right, whereas we want the juicy stuff too um, where is we?
Speaker 4:we want the, we want the juicy stuff too. Yeah, I love it when people say I don't, um, I don't like to participate in drama, but I don't mind hearing about it yes, exactly.
Speaker 6:Oh, counselors know lots of drama. I bet.
Speaker 5:That's the drama.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Wow. Well, thank you so much for sharing this, and you know what we um. We should probably dig into some of these other topics as well, so, if you're open to it, we'd love to have you back another time.
Speaker 6:Oh, I would love that I'd be honored Great.
Speaker 5:We appreciate the ask. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I would love that I'd be honored. I really appreciate the ask. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5:Yeah, perfect, thank you.
Speaker 3:Any parting, any other parting thoughts, stacey or Amy? Does anybody have a shot? So, deanna, one of the things that we do, sometimes at the end of a show, we have a, a shot which is maybe a suggestion for people, um, something that we might have come upon earlier in the week that we that we want to share sometimes we have and sometimes we don't. Yeah, I've got nothing well, let me tell you what I was just google searching before we jumped on here today, because this is also a pretty regular topic what's in your Google search?
Speaker 6:That episode was great. By the way, I loved that episode.
Speaker 3:I was all over that episode. You're like, ooh, what's in mine and this just popped up on my socials. So somebody that I follow she was showing how she has basically created a salad bar in her refrigerator crisper drawer.
Speaker 4:I saw that, I saw that.
Speaker 3:Brilliant, I know. And so I'm like looking at all of these little compartments and she's got you know all the veggies prepped and the lettuces washed and spun. And so I'm like, looking at all of these little compartments and she's got you know all the veggies prepped and the lettuces washed and spun, and so you can literally pull that drawer out and you can, you know, make yourself a salad bar.
Speaker 6:That's a great idea.
Speaker 3:Yes, so I was searching, I was looking on Amazon to find all of those little Containers, all of those little um containers, those little you know bpa container things that I can fit in, because my, we have a fairly new refrigerator. Refrigerator it's got the french doors that open and then you've got the big drawer that pulls out and I'm like I can organize that better. Yes, we so want to eat better, we want to do meal prepping and all of that kind of stuff and it just we talk about it forever and we, uh, we it, I don't get it done I think I think of all the things that you can meal prep, the hardest to make it good is a salad, is a salad.
Speaker 4:Salad out is a hundred percent better I don't know why that is but that's true. I don't know if it's the chilled plates, I don't know. Yes, you know, but dang, yeah, making a salad at home is always like okay, fine.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Work on that Kitty.
Speaker 5:Yeah, work on that, kitty, and report back. Okay, all right, I am, I'm going to work on that kitty and report back.
Speaker 3:All right, I am, I'm going to work on that, because poor Bill, every day, so he comes home for lunch every day and he's eaten the same thing for years Lunch meat. You know lunch, meat and cheese For years. Like we can do better, so we need suggestions. So, for our listeners and viewers, um, we're we're putting lots of posts out over on facebook. Maybe this is this would be a good question over the next week. Yeah, what do you guys eat? What do you eat? Because there are a lot of people who are very disciplined about their menu that they have lined up for the week. They rotate things in and out. Some people are really, really good at that, so I would love for somebody to share that with us if that is their strong suit. Yeah, oh, there we go. That would be good. Help us out, deanna, stay with us. Um, when we uh roll the music here, just stay with us and we'll all come together backstage. So, all right. Well, thank you guys. Good to have a conversation again. We'll see you all next week.
Speaker 5:Cheers, cheers, bye, cheers, cheers, bye-bye, bye, bye. All right, woo, bye-bye.
Speaker 2:Bye that wild. Here I go. Here I go, coming. I can't ever stop. I'm a tour de force running. Get me to the top. I don't need an invitation. I'm about to start a celebration. Let me in. Brought a good time for some friends. Turn it up loud past 10.
