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3 Cocktails In
Addicting conversations between friends who have been there, done that and still want more.
We are 3 friends who got this crazy idea to start a podcast based on our friendships, family lives, professional lives and experiences! This idea kept coming up in our conversations, especially after a cocktail or two or maybe three, and we finally decided to ACT on it!
We don't claim to be experts on too many things, but friendship? Well, we've got that down. We're making our way through major life changes, searching for work that excites us, busting myths associated with 'old' people, and keeping a sense of humor about it all.
Self employed, boss - CHECK
Mom, wife, single - CHECK
Rural, suburban, urban life - CHECK
Vodka, gin, wine - CHECK
Make sure to subscribe to our channel ~ FOMO is real and it sucks.
Amy, Kitty & Stacey
P.S. Isn't our intro music great?! Yah, we think so too. Thank you, Ivy States for "I Got That Wow".
3 Cocktails In
Giving & Receiving Honest Feedback Is Hard: Turning Conflict Avoidance into Empowering Conversations
Why is honest feedback crucial for effective leadership? Unpack the wisdom of conscious leadership expert Ginny Clarke with us as we explore the dynamics of feedback and communication in leadership. We dive into the challenges of conflict avoidance and the need for transparency in managerial roles. From personal anecdotes about dodging difficult conversations to reflecting on how these habits harm self-esteem and productivity, we weave through the nuanced teachings of Clarke and even touch on Gary V's approach to understanding what motivates employees.
Managing relationships with multiple bosses and fostering a culture of open communication in a team can be daunting. We share real-life experiences, from Stacey’s small office dynamics to Kitty’s evolution from a hesitant manager to a confident leader. Amy also provides insights into the critical role of honest feedback in training new salespeople. Our discussion spans various organizational contexts, offering practical advice and emphasizing the importance of direct, actionable feedback to drive personal and professional growth.
Lightening the mood, we recount personal stories of how engaging with strangers can boost confidence and open up unexpected networking opportunities. From grocery store chats to navigating Paris with limited French, these everyday interactions are both humorous and insightful. We also indulge in a playful debate on who would make the best action hero rescuer—Liam Neeson or Jason Bourne (Matt Damon). Wrapping up, we celebrate Ginny Clarke's vibrant personality and unique fashion sense, and highlight the importance of fostering community through daily interactions. Cheers to bringing good times and positive energy wherever we go!
Make sure to subscribe to our channel, comment, like, and share!
Amy, Kitty & Stacey
P.S. Isn't our intro music great?! Yah, we think so too. Thank you, Ivy States for "I Got That Wow".
All right, well, hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Three Cocktails In Hello Stacey and Amy, hello Catherine.
Speaker 3:Who are you? You? Guys known as Kitty.
Speaker 4:Kitty, so formal, I know.
Speaker 2:Good evening everyone. It's another week. Here we are again for another riveting conversation.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, riveting and addicting and all those things that we claim to be.
Speaker 3:Yes, Super knowledgeable. Oh yeah, Really fact based. Oh sure, we do some research.
Speaker 2:Oh sure, we do some research.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, basically we pull each other.
Speaker 4:All in his favor.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we, we do check the interwebs. We go on the line see what we can learn. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Cause that's a hundred percent factual as well.
Speaker 3:If it's out there, it must be true.
Speaker 4:It must be yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it is. So how was everyone's week and weekend?
Speaker 3:Sold another house Ooh-wee. Excellent. We had a lovely, lovely woman come in and she was delightful, delightful it was a lot of fun good yeah, um, yeah, I think we're at least.
Speaker 2:I am reluctant to ask because I never want that to feel like pressure.
Speaker 3:All right, thank you and I and I thank you a lot I have told other people in my life who, uh, whenever I talk to them, which is often so, did you sell a house today? I'm like, believe me, if I did, I would tell you. How about? You. Let me tell you first. You know, if I sold a house every day, we would not be listening to the housing market on the news.
Speaker 4:If it was that easy, if only it was that easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, good Okay. So just know, we'll always just wait for you to share that.
Speaker 4:All right, thank you for that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Well, in jumping in today, we are excited about conversation. So, as we think about the different topics to share with our listeners, we have little conversations leading up to setting topics on our calendar, and all three of us follow Ginny Clark on Instagram and I'm sure she's on other channel, other forms of media as well but we are consistently sharing little snippets of her words of wisdom and we wanted to dig into one of them today because we all found it interesting, timely, whatever, and we thought it would be interesting to all. So, again, her name is Ginny Clark. She describes herself as a conscious leadership expert.
Speaker 2:She's an author, she's a speaker, she comes from the corporate world and she just has really, really insightful little videos, and the one that piqued our interest recently was talking about the benefits of giving feedback and sort of um, well, the, the interpersonal communication that comes into play in the corporate world and it also comes into play in our personal lives. Yeah, yes, so here we go, because feedback is, feedback is. It's hard to give sometimes and it's hard to take at times as well.
Speaker 4:Yes, she specifically says that because people want to be you know, people pleasing and they want to avoid conflict. So to go and give someone your honest opinion can be really hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And uncomfortable sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yes, we yeah, and I think just generally as human beings, we are people pleasers. I mean, there are people out there who don't care. You know, we've all interacted with narcissists. That can be boy. We can have lots of fun conversations about dealing with narcissists, but yeah, in general people want, they don't. We don't want conflict.
Speaker 3:So we avoid the awkward.
Speaker 2:Yes, Yep, avoid the awkward, avoid the awkward. Yes, yep, avoid the awkward, avoid the conflict. And, um, so, but it's it's, it's detrimental in well, everywhere. You have to, at some point, have the conversation, address the conflict, whether you're at work or in a in a personal situation, and I so, as I've been thinking about this, knowing that we're going to talk about it tonight I've been thinking about the managers that I've had in my career and how they've dealt with managing people and managing situations and giving constructive feedback. And, um, I asked myself the question have I had a manager that I just think, wow, that person was so good? And I don't think and this is not a knock to any of my managers, because that's a really hard skill to have, and I think a lot of it is just natural. There are a lot of people that are just naturally good in managing people have you guys had? What have your experiences been?
Speaker 3:Well, I've not been in a situation until the last year where I've had a manager. It's been decades since I had a manager. You know, in the last couple of years maybe, but you know what?
Speaker 3:I like about Ginny Clark is she talks about leadership in a way that it's not giving you. Feedback is to better that person and also to better the company, but it also has something to do with you. You know, if you never give feedback, you're doing a disservice to yourself, you're sitting with something that's not right. So in essence, you're lowering your own self-esteem because you're afraid to do this. And she talks about it from a holistic standpoint, which I think is kind of how she talks about a lot of things.
Speaker 3:It's not just a review, and if a manager has come to her and said I need to do this or they aren't doing that, she oftentimes tells the story about well, have you thought about your own role in the scenario? And I find that really interesting and it you know, I watched something from Gary Vee today as well, and he was talking to CEOs about how you work for your workers. If you don't find out what makes them tick and what motivates them, you're already down. So it's interesting to to think about giving feedback for more than just I need to tell something, somebody that they're not doing this as well as they should or something's not right, but to take kind of a dialed back. You know a higher level of view of it. I mean, I don't know, yeah, she she also talks about servant leaderships.
Speaker 4:Yeah, servant leadership like to be a servant to your you know, and it can even be your family or you know people that you work with. You know you're trying to help everybody. And she also says you know you have to give feedback and you do it because you care. You know you care about the person, you care about the family, you care about your work, life and your team and you know all of this. So you do that because you care, because you know they need to hear it. Um, you know they need to hear the honest honesty from you. You know not what they want to hear. You know what I mean. So, if you care enough to make, you know to improve, you know, improve a situation, improve a relationship, help your you know team, you know be better than you care enough to give the honest feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so she, she, she talks a lot also about, unfortunately, environments where people don't feel comfortable speaking to their manager about things that are. So when a manager might ask an employee for feedback, the employee isn't honest because they don't feel that it's a comfortable environment, they don't feel that they can be open and honest, and this is when she talks about this is where everything just spirals down, and that is, you know, we hear people talk about that all the time that the work environment is not one that they feel that they can be open or that they feel that they're listened to, or, if they do share that they're, you know, they don't know that there won't be repercussions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so there's problems with feedback both ways, both ways top down, bottom up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she does give a little advice on like how to do it. She says you use I statements instead of you. You always you know it's not, you always do this and she always does that and you know he always does this you should use I statements, so it's like I'm noticing that something, something is happening or something is going on, or you know. Use it, as I'm affected by this or I notice it or something, and then see how the you know what I mean See how the conversation goes from there.
Speaker 3:That's a. That's a a therapy tool when you're having conflict with some. You know conflict.
Speaker 4:I feel, ignored.
Speaker 3:When you don't look at me when we're talking, I feel you know the I statement. Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine.
Speaker 3:I'm thinking about my bosses right now, my manager. I have two managers. Well, I have one manager, there's a couple managers, and then I have a manager over that. I'm having a hard time because we have kind of quarterly you get quarterly goals and they're always asking is there anything you need from me? Is there anything you need from me? What can I do? Asking is there anything you need from me? Is there anything you need from me? What can I do? And you know other than say build me more homes.
Speaker 1:I can't think about anything knock on wood that I feel like I need like.
Speaker 3:X, y, Z, when the company or you did ABC. I don't want to have that conversation because I want them to like me. You know the old, the old idea that if they don't notice me, if they don't talk to me, I'm doing good, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4:But if you work for.
Speaker 3:But if you work for somebody who doesn't like conflict and would rather let it go, I might just be delusional. They may just prefer to let me do what I want without giving me any feedback. That helps me get where I want to be.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. But they're really asking you. You know, what can I, what information can I give you? What communication can I give you? What you know, what do you need to help do your job? You know what are your, what are you looking for? You know they're not looking for. You know the whole company is this and that. The other thing, you know. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:They're literally trying to help. You know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:They're literally trying to help you. You know, yeah, well, stacy, you've mentioned before that the people that are on your team don't like to give feedback. No, I give them plenty of opportunity to um and the same thing. But I also feel like we sit in a tiny little building. We're talking about issues and things all the time. We're not necessarily talking career development out in the open, but we're talking about issues going on constantly. So when we do a one-on-one together, we're talking more. You know what, what do you, what do you want to learn next and what do you want to do next? And here's my ideas for what you could do next. You know what I mean? It's more of a private career development Cause I feel like they also will say you know the little, the little bitty, picky stuff, you know they're. They say it's just plenty of feedback.
Speaker 4:They give plenty of those little things. Yes, which is needed, I'm fine with that. But yes, if I ask them. You know that pointed question where you know what can I do to help you, you know what you know or give me feedback on what I'm doing. That's the one that everybody, you know I would say everybody shies away from doing, you know you know, I wonder if people just don't know really what that means, or that they they.
Speaker 3:Is it too vague a question? I'm I wonder yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I wonder if it might be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe kitty, you've worked for a variety of different companies, yes, different roles within those companies, some you know lately I mean in the last lots of years as a manager of people. How have you dealt with it? Are you good at giving feedback, feedback?
Speaker 2:Um, I, I don't know that I'm a great manager and it's it's a role that I never really wanted to have. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to go into sales, because I just wanted you know, sales is a very independent position, yeah, and I ended up having direct reports for you know, just because I ended up with a few of the companies them saying, hey, we don't really have this marketing discipline. Can you build the department? Okay, yeah, great, I can do that, that, I'm very good at it. I, um, oh.
Speaker 4:I would say I'm. You know, certainly in the beginning I was probably terrible. You know what I mean, because you have, you know, my experience. You have all the whole job to do plus trying to, you know, manage your people. So, oh, I'm sure it's lousy at it, you know, and I expect a lot anyway. So I'm sure that piece came across too. You know, harsh, we're gonna do this and this and this and this. Yeah, you know what I mean. So, yeah, I don't know if it's maturity or just longevity or what it is that you know.
Speaker 3:I just thought of this and it would not have occurred to me. Because I am a salesperson I don't manage anybody. But my company likes to send people who are training to sit with me to practice going over a purchase agreement. And now I've had four people. They've sent four different people to me. I mean, they do they watch other people as well, but they specifically say go sit and do this with Amy, Because I, for whatever, reason I managed to identify you.
Speaker 4:They've identified you as a leader.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I'm good at this one thing. Well, I don't know. I'm good at this one thing. Well, I'm good at explaining the purchase agreement to buyers. I'll say that. But in the process of this, I have to give them feedback, because you do not get to sell on the floor on your own until you pass pass the purchase agreement test with my boss's boss, my manager's boss, with the you know, the big guy. And so I have to give feedback, as I'm. As we're talking about this and it is, it can be brutally honest feedback. Not, it's not brutal. I'm not a brutal person unless I'm really really pissed off, but that doesn't happen at work. Um, but it's saying things like they'll do it and they'll look and they'll say how was that? And I'll go. Well, I wouldn't say it like that, you know, and and we're joking around about it and I'm like don't say anything negative, don't use any words that I know what you mean, but you know, oh, this looks like a big, scary pile of papers. Don't use the word scary.
Speaker 3:You know, little things like that. And I felt horrible this past week because this person that I've worked with a number of weekends but they're really working hard, because they're coming to the point where they get to do it and they want to do it well and they kill it. I mean mean they really know their stuff. But, and because she knows her stuff, we went paragraph by paragraph and I stopped her and I said her, I stopped this person and, um, and we went through it and she came back the next day. She goes okay, I want to do this again. I said, okay, cool, you know great. I said you did a good job yesterday. She goes. I went home and cried and I went, oh, oh, oh, my God, and my heart stopped and I'm like you did a great job. Oh, there was so much I didn't know and so much I had to learn and I'm like, oh, my.
Speaker 4:God, I'm a horrible person, don't you think she was?
Speaker 3:she was anxious about it, not she's got a lot of stuff going on and it is a lot to know. And she did that PA for me that day and I'm like I'd pass you right now. You were spot, you hit everything there were. I can't even imagine them not passing you. And she had her test a day ago and I saw her and she's like I got high fives.
Speaker 3:They said I killed it and I found myself making a mistake and she fixed it without them knowing. And afterwards she said did you catch my mistake? And they're like like no, when did you? She goes oh yeah, when you guys were talking, I took it and I slid it right in. They're like damn, and so delivery is part of it. But I guess I didn't realize I was being Okay.
Speaker 4:So the opposite is what if the day before you wouldn't have said anything? You said, yeah, that's pretty good, yeah, pretty good, good. And then she'd have gone in and failed. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:because she needed the honest feedback to be able to change to the next think of it as tweaks just little tweaks and, and you know we're all good, she's, she's great and I, I love her and she's gonna, she's awesome. But I didn't think of it until right now, when we're talking about giving feedback and that you know. Yeah, well okay.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've seen you interact with other people. There's no way that you were a jerk in that interaction with her. You were Right. That were right. That's not you. Now, if we go back a few podcast episodes where I was sharing that experience that we had with the dude who was called in when we were getting our taxes done, that guy was a jack Ass. I'll say it for you, thank you. That's different. You know he was giving feedback to this person and, um, you know to us too, and he was just awful. That's completely different. What you did in giving her that feedback was getting her ready to pass her test, right, yeah, and you did it in a nice, in a nice way I hope so, in a constructive way. That's the. That's a way that's going to help people learn. If you've got a manager that's just, you know, gruff and delivers things like that in, um, what you know with that, with a hammer. That's a horrible way to manage people.
Speaker 3:I always like to know the why. So if you're going to give feedback to me, it shouldn't just be don't, or I'd rather you do this. I personally always need to know the why. Yeah, you know why do. Why do we do it this way? Why does it get said this way? Why? Why would you use that xyz, whatever that is, and I I think people are more open to feedback if you can explain what the value is and the change that you're asking for yeah, yeah, it's just always going to be a better way for people to learn.
Speaker 2:It will. It will sink in and they will be able to it. It will stay with them longer if they learn it that way.
Speaker 3:And you know what, both the people that I worked with in the last two weeks taught me a few things and I'm like, oh, are we supposed to say that? And they're like, well, yeah, they kind of hit on them Like I didn't know, that, now I know, now I will know. And when you can have an open conversation in let's face it, I'm not a formal person, so if you can have this kind of give and take in a more relaxed atmosphere, you're more likely to say, well, this is is how I do it, or this is what I was told and this is you know. So that you get back to the why. So they, they, they were able to. They helped me out too. A couple things I didn't know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that's that's even as a leader, as a manager. You that's what I'm looking for is you come to me with a different idea. You know, I want to hear your ideas. It's not all. I don't. I don't know everything, obviously, and I can't even, you know, creatively come up with everything, either come up with everything either. So I want to hear what you know, what they've learned, what they've noticed, what they want to do, all that kind of stuff. So a manager loves to hear that.
Speaker 3:whether it gets implemented, that's a whole nother deal, but yeah, and that's really interesting because I think that leads to why people don't give feedback either. Because I think that leads to why people don't give feedback either. Why tell you what I think? When the company has never implemented any of the, they've never acted on any of the feedback. Yeah, you know, there's a. I just love all I think I'm just going to say it Thank God for the internet and Instagram, because I feel like I am learning so much. That's not always the memes I share with you guys privately, but the other stuff you know. And there's a.
Speaker 3:There's a woman that does HR and she pretends to be fielding a call from her boss and he's always asking her some questions. So she relays why you can or cannot. And one of the questions had to deal with exit interviews and doing exit interviews and the comment, the story the comment came up with if you're not going to make any changes based on the information you've gathered on it at an exit interview, you don't need to do them. There's no point in doing that if you're not going to make any changes based on the information you've gathered. Yeah, so I think kind of, through all these stories, we're kind of learning. We really do need to give the feedback, yeah you do.
Speaker 4:And I think at any level that you are. You know what I mean. And again, just like Kitty said, you know, give feedback up, give feedback down, you know, just because it's important. Like I said, the opposite of it is you betray yourself because you're stuffing everything down and you're not being honest. You need to have the courage and you know the confidence to say you know, say how you feel.
Speaker 3:So Ginny was talking about confidence. Do you guys think about that at all? Did you do any thoughts on? Or maybe it was Mel Robbins. Did she just do a podcast that said that confidence is a skill?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was her this week oh, oh, yep, I have not listened to that one yet. Good me either morning.
Speaker 4:Yeah, confidence is a skill she kind of gave some uh ways to you know, to practice being confident you, because and a lot of it.
Speaker 4:I think the one right before the one you're talking about, amy, I think was she was giving the you know advice to, you know communicate with people, give everybody you know, like the, the person checking you out at the grocery store. I don't know, I can't remember her examples, but you know she says she compliments a lot of people because you never know how you're going to strike up a conversation and again, that gives you confidence to talk to anyone Other?
Speaker 4:people yeah, other people, you know and start that way, which I thought was interesting. You know, I would probably be the opposite of that. I don't talk to you. Know what I mean? I don't strike up that kind of conversation with just anybody. Oh my gosh, I am like my mother.
Speaker 3:I watched my mother all her life talk to every single person she knew. She knew everybody, yeah, and when the girls were little I think it was ava, when we were going into target said mommy, can we not talk to everybody? Today she's in the cart, you know, but I do, I. I strike up conversations all the time like oh, my gosh, my gosh, I love you, I love. Where'd you get those shoes? People.
Speaker 3:I don't know, or oh, what is that that you're buying? If you're talking about a grocery store, heck, I was talking with the guy that drew my blood. Turns out he wants to buy a house. I now have his email and his phone number, Right.
Speaker 4:And that's, that's exactly how you know the perfect networking and you know communication happens, so practice on people you don't know. That you don't know. Yep, there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I can see how that is an activity that if you do it, it comes across as confidence.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And death.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well the more interactions, the more times you try that the other person responds in a pleasant manner mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:You know, like anything that you practice, you get, you get good feedback and suddenly you want to do it a little bit more and it's a little scary.
Speaker 4:Yep, it gets easier.
Speaker 3:Good idea, Stacey Talk to random people. I want to see you do that in Paris, oh you don't think I'll do that.
Speaker 4:Well, I'll get the feedback like I don't understand a word you're saying because your French stinks. So that's the feedback.
Speaker 2:The feedback will be huh, I was going to say good luck with that in Paris, because I think they're the most friendly people to a man, I'm wondering if we should have flashcards that we can just hold on to.
Speaker 4:I know Well, I have this feeling I'm going to be holding my phone. Because Google has really good. Google Translate is really good of what I've tested so far so I'm just going to be looking and reading, you know, off my phone constantly probably oh yeah, my, my, yeah, my freshman, freshman, french class.
Speaker 4:besides the fact that it was a long time ago, you know I learned real important words, like you know, montagne and bibliotech, and you know all these stringing them all together are going to be kind of hard. So we'll see. Yeah, we just are hoping we don't get lost.
Speaker 3:Oh, I know we're going to get lost.
Speaker 4:I hope we don't get mugged while we're lost yeah, lost and kidnapped. I hope you find your way back.
Speaker 3:Maybe, Liam Neeson. Kitty, will you send Liam Neeson after us?
Speaker 4:Yeah, can you If we disappear?
Speaker 3:Taking the senior citizen version.
Speaker 4:Can't we do better than Liam Neeson, though? Oh, he's not. He is not.
Speaker 2:Not really that, but he will find you. If you're taken, he will find you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but so will Jason Bourne, jason Bourne's too short.
Speaker 3:I need Liam Neeson. Liam.
Speaker 2:Neeson has the skips Good point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the track record.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's got credentials. Alright, we'll see.
Speaker 2:So let's close with this, since we're talking about Liam Neeson. I don't remember what brand it was, but there was a commercial that he was on and he always plays the same kind of character Just a lethal yes.
Speaker 3:He has the same range as Kevin Costner.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:He was going into a coffee shop and he was ordering something, so he was waiting for his order. He was going into a coffee shop and he was ordering something, so he was waiting for his order and the clerk, the person behind the counter, or whatever Lyam, lyam, your raspberry scone is ready. Not only are they pronouncing his name, but good to know that, liam.
Speaker 3:Mason orders a raspberry scone. I knew that we'd have a lot in common. I also would order a raspberry scone, that is true, yes, Yep.
Speaker 2:Well, check out Ginny Clark we recommend. Wouldn't it be fun to have her on the podcast someday?
Speaker 4:Oh, I know, oh, oh, I think we tag her and see what. Let's see how far we get. Yes, and if anybody's looking for her, she, she's so fashionable that's why she just has such this beautiful, unique look to her that I'm just so fascinated. And so she's Ginny G-I-N-N-Y Clark, with an.
Speaker 3:E at the end. Yes, you know, it's really funny. We didn't even touch on being from the Midwest, where we really hate conflict Too nice. No, everything's fine I'm fine, we're all fine. Let's all take some time.
Speaker 2:I'm fine, I'm fine, we're all fine.
Speaker 3:Let's all take some time, be honest with ourselves, be honest with the people around us. Do it gently and in a positive light. Here you go. That's a good summary, good conclusion. And talk to people at the grocery store.
Speaker 4:At the grocery store and the gas station and the wherever.
Speaker 2:Okay, we will see you all next week.
Speaker 4:We will, won't we though? Yes, we will. Cheers, bye, bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, I'm a tour de force running. Get me to the top. I don't need an invitation. I'm about to start a celebration. Let me in Brought a good time for some friends. Turn it up loud past 10. Turning up the crowd when I hit them with the power.
